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 Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)

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kow



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PostSubject: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Wed May 18, 2016 12:09 am

Team members and comp:



Result: Full clear (2 hours and 40 min)

VG (1 pull): 9 manned (started early). Nothing special.

Gorsi (2 pull): No updraft. Need to work no dodging stomps, too many people getting hit.

Sabetha (2 pulls): Last cannon. Still missing throws here and there especially near the end.

Sloth (4 pulls): Sloppy kill. Too many people downing throughout the fight. Slubling control is good until second lap where it starts to fall apart. Poisons need to be dropped by wall.

Trio (6 pulls): Attempted environmentally friendly, but failed due to Zane shooting the cage and mortars near the end. Completed using environmental effects in one try, but sloppy with downs/deaths. Need to work on soloing mortars, pulling adds off the cage, and pointing Zane away from cage.

Matthias (1 pull): Seimur was wrong. DPS was a bit low, hit enrage as we killed. In last phase, people are moving too far from boss and downing. Need to stack better so he can be pulled properly.
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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Wed May 18, 2016 1:36 am

Jeebus - what were you struggling with so hard on environmentally friendly? Just not enough cage health by the end?

And what was the problem with soloing mortars?
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Raven



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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Sun May 22, 2016 11:07 pm

I was struggling to get the two at the top on mortar phase 4
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shabangbang
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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Sun May 22, 2016 11:23 pm

Ohhhh I see.
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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Wed May 25, 2016 1:14 am


Sloth changes: Selici ran druid, Baz ran PS and Goat ran reaper.


Result: Full clear (2 hours and 50 min) Ft. Goatboy

VG (1 pull):
Pros: Started early and finished at 0:03. 7:55 phase, pretty good.
Cons: Some backspawns as a result of slow breaks. DPS dudes need to break faster.

Gorsi (4 pull): No updraft
Pros: Zeleaf can condi bomb two spirits, so Selici can just stick with his zerg and Zeleaf can go back to his. They don't have to camp their spirits any longer. People stacking tighter, yay us. Next run should be ez.
Cons: Los of miscommunication on Goat's part, getting used to the new goops, yo. Miscommunication = bad dps.  Still gotta improve on dodging, by a lot.

Sabetha (1 pull):
Pros: Baz making those spicy plays
Cons: Baz dying to spicy plays made by flamewall

Finished SV at :51.

Sloth (1 pull):
Pros: One shot, an improvement.
Cons: Kind of messy, just unlucky. Never lucky, pals.

Trio (4 pulls):
Pros: Can't think of anything.
Cons: Zane, gotta move quicker. Gotta pull and cleave ads so wargs can do all the work. Goatboy carried the last one though, he is credit to team.
Note: Maybe guide on how to laze through Zane, while the wargs do all the work?

Reached Matthias at 1:40.

Matthias (3many5me):
Pros: No need for pussio calls. People actually stack now.
Cons: Lots of unlucky stuff going down. Gotta improve DEEPS.
Sidenote: Hodor was not there for one run, so 4 strong warriors got insta gibbed by the door. They will be missed.  

Goatboy notes: Lots of room for improvement. Gotta increase our DPS. Matthias DPS was really behind, comp/rotations/pulls all could've been better.
Hope this post helps the 2-3 people who have read this.

AND

I didn't have music on for the first 2 hours, so lots of DPS was lost there.
Sorry pals
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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Thu May 26, 2016 9:38 pm

I lost it at "Sidenote: Hodor was not there for one run, so 4 strong warriors got insta gibbed by the door. They will be missed."

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kow



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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Tue May 31, 2016 11:31 pm



Results:
Full clear 3 h and 07 min

VG (1 pull):
Pros: Decent run.
Cons: Phase 1 a bit slow at 6:42.

Gorsi (4 pulls):
Pros: We killed it.
Cons: DPS is too low. People getting egged now and then.

Sabetha (too many):
Pros: People seem to be more aware of what is going on in general.
Cons: Quite a few missed green bomb throws. Few flame wall deaths.

Sloth (4 pulls):
Pros: Fairly clean kill.
Cons: Bit slow on the pull and eating at times. People downing to shakes.

Trio (1 pull): Environmentally Friendly
Pros: Pretty clean kill. Improvement from 2 weeks ago.
Cons: One missed mortar right at the end, although it made zero difference.

Matthias (5 pulls): Seimur was Wrong
Pros: Breaks were ok, and not a lot of poison were being dropped. Hadukens were generally being dodged.
Cons: People downing to poison and corruption and bombs. Have to do a better job of staying alive.

Overall notes:
Mechanics can be a bit cleaner, feel like we are getting a bit lazy since the fights are so routine now.
DPS needs to increase. Our team DPS feels like it is about 10-20% lower than what it should be. Between runs our phase times can vary by as much as 40 seconds, which indicates that people are messing up rotations and such. Have to get them down pat so they are second nature.
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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:26 am

So I understand the desire to make them more self-sufficient by making less calls, but it sorta defeats the point of being a raid leader, and it also doesn't seem like it's working that well. If you're not gonna call it doesn't seem like you really need to be there. If anyone has the ability to play without needing call-outs because they know the fight intimately enough and have enough sense of awareness then they're damn near qualified to be a caller. I don't think the vast majority of people on static teams are also qualified to be a caller. Just my two cents. Might want to turn off the music and give them shout outs.

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kow



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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:45 pm

Kind of agree and disagree at the same time. The original idea was to make use of the time before raid wing 3 came out to get everyone to be more reliable. So, doing achievement runs, no updraft, dual cannon, try different comps/roles, no calls, etc. This does makes the runs harder and clear times longer, but would hopefully improve everyone's awareness and mechanics. Then when raid wing 3 comes out, we'd do the runs normally with calls and it should be so easy comparatively, that we'd be able to one shot everything and clear in 1.5 hours so we'd have time for wing 3. But you are correct in that it didn't seem to work that well (while we did clear, there was really no noticeable progress as a team through the weeks as you can see from the clear times).

I disagree with the notion that if someone doesn't need calls they are basically a raid leader. A raid leader has to keep track of everything and everyone, and I am just asking that everyone keeps track of what they are doing themselves. IMO, ideally a raid leader's role is to call overall strategies, like setting team comp, calling for cannon backups, flak switches, CC holds, etc. Things that are out of the norm and deal with the whole overall flow of the fight. I don't feel the raid leader should have to call "ok guys.. watch for green bomb.. it is going to spawn in exactly 2 seconds.. throw now". At that point it is just the raid leader raiding with a bunch of puppets.

I also understand that some people just want an easy clear and don't really care about improving beyond that is necessary. I am ok with that, but I feel that is not a good attitude for our static teams. As a basic benchmark, I think any serious static guild team should be at least as good as any pug, and at the moment I don't think we can say that with certainty.

Either way, since raid wing 3 is coming out and we want to have as much time as possible to try that wing, we will be playing with full calls and all crutches starting next week.
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PostSubject: Re: Full Clear Team 2 (Tuesday)   Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:51 pm

Yeah, so I like what you're doing (in theory) and I don't mean it to sound like I think players should be babysat. I think you know from my opinions about mechanic skipping etc that I'm actually quite the opposite.

Perhaps it's over-generalizing to say that you're basically qualified to lead a raid if you don't need calls, but I find often that the people who can do their job without being told are often those who can actually call. (Part of the reason I ended up actually requesting you to be a raid leader.) While there are many who can do their job it's obvious that some people often need reminders.

That being said I'm curious to see if there is any actual improvement once calls are made. I realize that there has been no significant time improvement on raids where calls aren't made, but I'm curious to see if going back to a standardized raid is much easier for them than it was before.

Also I agree that we should try to at least be as good as pugs, but there's somewhat a difference between the two. Pugs learn to work independently of each other and usually you see the better players pugging because they're used to having to pug and think for themselves. Most of these people were trained in house and learned to rely on each other and their callers. It's an unfortunate byproduct of our inclusion policies but the reality is that it makes for a better guild, not necessarily a more productive group of raiders. At this point we just have to make sure they're getting the job done and not having a bunch of fuckery. Maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way... I'll keep it on the brain.




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